B. Enkhbat: I was Enkhbayar’s gloves
This is a follow up to our previous interview with B. Enkhbat; translated from Udriin Sonin newspaper.
-We talk through the waste pipe. Not talking to anyone at all is a horrible punishment. Generally, people who stay in solitary confinement for many years tend to go insane later in life. Sometimes they speak and argue with themselves and if they hear a noise or music they would argue with that instead.
-What do you think about the former President N. Enkhbayar?
-He is one of the greatest politicians of our time. He is one of the few people who are still alive. That’s what I understand.
There is one saying that I like. However big a mountain is, its shadow is even bigger. I think even though some people are great, their mistakes can even be greater. I think the current charge they have against him is ridiculous. The amount of wealth he attained while in office is nothing compared to other individuals. Why doesn’t he have licenses for properties or own shares in large companies? How can you say this man took advantage of his position? I hear he was sentenced to four or five years, but when he is in prison, he will never be thirsty, hungry or suffer in any way. The Mongolian prison system is just like its Russian counterpart. For example, if there is such a thing as a notorious thief in Russia, it is the same in Mongolia.
-How did you first meet N. Enkhbayar?
-In 1996 I worked for the Unen newspaper. At that time, the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party was going downhill and N. Enkhbayar just took up the position as its Executive Secretary. That is when I conducted my first interview with him. I guess that was how I officially met him, but I knew him before that. Our history goes back 20 years.
I was working for the Unen newspaper only because my teacher L. Tudev worked there. Both my teachers, L. Tudev and B. Lkhagvasuren, have written forewords in my books. I respect both of them, I am their student and disciple.
-Since you were arrested and held in prison, have you been in contact with N. Enkhbayar?
-Yes, he has helped me a lot, among with many other people. The guys from Dayar Mongol and Khukh Mongol would come, too. I am grateful to the people who kept their friendship with me even though I am in prison. During these hard times the best of friends are the ones who always remain. But now in solitary confinement I am not allowed to have any visitors. Only very few people are allowed to see me. There have been many powerful politicians who have made statements in my case.
-The health and well-being of high-ranking police officers and especially N. Enkhbayar, all have deteriorated with the prospect of imprisonment. But you have made it through the toughest prison system in Mongolia for five years. What do you think about this?
-I think when one truly believes in something, he can overcome anything. Although I have not killed anyone on purpose, I could not just die before any of this is resolved. I will live until everything is decided. You ask me about Enkhbayar; it is not an easy task to go on a hunger strike for 10 days, like he did. I thought that a man could only go on for seven days at most. It’s scary to even think about anything more than that. But I do not know how and in what condition he experienced that hunger. There is a difference between a man like me in this condition, in prison, to go on a hunger strike and a politician going on a hunger strike. For his beliefs, I respect N. Enkhbayar. There is no one out there that makes absolutely no mistakes. I think it is right to sometimes forgive people.
-There are rumours that N. Enkhbayar put you in prison. In addition to the good things you know about him, you also know all the bad things he has done.
-I will tell you just one thing on this. I don’t know if you noticed it or not, but I have many people who are very loyal to me. One of them was the leader of Dayar Mongol, but he got capital punishment. What he did actually involved three people, but he took the punishment alone. We would not make a single move against the people we worked with, even when faced with death. This is a quality that makes us men. If the other man pushes us, we are still loyal. I am one of those people. If Enkhbayar told me, “I am in a high political position. I will get rid of you, I no longer need you,” I would accept it. The only reason politicians get into trouble or even get killed is because they know too much.
Unless his liver takes his life away, Enkhbayar will definitely come back and enter politics in Mongolia.
-If you had something to say to him, what would it be?
-I’d say, bear through it and come back to politics. A man does not repeat his mistakes. If a man repeats his mistakes over and over again he will never succeed. N. Enkhbayar has made a lot of mistakes. He pushed away many of his personal friends and he also trusted many untrustworthy people. But I feel that he will not repeat his mistakes. Politics is a very dirty game. If politicians do not have gloves, they will not succeed.
-What do you mean?
-Guys like me are the gloves; I was Enkhbayar’s pair of gloves, basically. So in essence it means that I would connect to certain people that Enkhbayar normally wouldn’t.
-Let us talk about something else. I heard that you were a humble person who does nothing but write books?
-Well, I really despise the books I have written. I think those books were just commercial books.
-What do you think about your case?
-I am guilty; I will not say I am innocent. I think most young Mongolians in prisons already acknowledge that they are guilty. There are only a few people who know that they will definitely get the highest possible punishment from the state. I had never shook hands with a Chinese-Mongolian person, but I did so in prison.
I met this Chinese-Mongolian man in gyandan. He was there for the seventh time. This time he was in for killing someone with a knife. I asked him, “How many years did you expect to get for this?” He said he expected 20 but got more. I told him, “So this is where we meet. I do not like people like you, Chinese-Mongolian, but now there is no use in hating each other,” and then I shook that man’s hand.
-You have accused many people of having Chinese blood, haven’t you?
I just hope that Mongolia does not lose its independence. I don’t care whether a person is hybrid or not, as long as they work and dedicate their efforts to the good of Mongolia and its people. But I will oppose and fight if they use high political positions to fulfill the interests of foreigners.
-You always wore a Khas symbol (swastika) around your neck and you are still wearing it today. Tell us more about it.
-Well, it is like this. I wore this in the high room in gyandan and I am still wearing it. Things like this are generally forbidden in jails. It has a lot of symbolism, some of which is derived from hundreds of years ago. It is like a family trophy for me and I plan to give this to my children because I think energies are collected in items. It would take many volumes of books to explain the symbolism of a Khas symbol.
Short URL: http://ubpost.mongolnews.mn/?p=1497
Both in jail and out in society, he was always involved with many controversial events. In 1990, he encouraged the public to ‘revive Mongolian kinship’. In 2000, he established a number of nationalistic groups, such as Dayar Mongol and Khukh Mongol. Within these groups, he is often referred to as the father of nationalism. He also wrote a bestselling six-volume book titled ‘Ordered Assassinations’. He is a strong supporter of the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party, and it is also said that he is a descendant of General D. Sukhbaatar.
-Even though it seems that prisoners are separated in gyandan, how do you communicate with each other?
-Even though it seems that prisoners are separated in gyandan, how do you communicate with each other?
-We talk through the waste pipe. Not talking to anyone at all is a horrible punishment. Generally, people who stay in solitary confinement for many years tend to go insane later in life. Sometimes they speak and argue with themselves and if they hear a noise or music they would argue with that instead.
-What do you think about the former President N. Enkhbayar?
-He is one of the greatest politicians of our time. He is one of the few people who are still alive. That’s what I understand.
There is one saying that I like. However big a mountain is, its shadow is even bigger. I think even though some people are great, their mistakes can even be greater. I think the current charge they have against him is ridiculous. The amount of wealth he attained while in office is nothing compared to other individuals. Why doesn’t he have licenses for properties or own shares in large companies? How can you say this man took advantage of his position? I hear he was sentenced to four or five years, but when he is in prison, he will never be thirsty, hungry or suffer in any way. The Mongolian prison system is just like its Russian counterpart. For example, if there is such a thing as a notorious thief in Russia, it is the same in Mongolia.
-How did you first meet N. Enkhbayar?
-In 1996 I worked for the Unen newspaper. At that time, the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party was going downhill and N. Enkhbayar just took up the position as its Executive Secretary. That is when I conducted my first interview with him. I guess that was how I officially met him, but I knew him before that. Our history goes back 20 years.
I was working for the Unen newspaper only because my teacher L. Tudev worked there. Both my teachers, L. Tudev and B. Lkhagvasuren, have written forewords in my books. I respect both of them, I am their student and disciple.
-Since you were arrested and held in prison, have you been in contact with N. Enkhbayar?
-Yes, he has helped me a lot, among with many other people. The guys from Dayar Mongol and Khukh Mongol would come, too. I am grateful to the people who kept their friendship with me even though I am in prison. During these hard times the best of friends are the ones who always remain. But now in solitary confinement I am not allowed to have any visitors. Only very few people are allowed to see me. There have been many powerful politicians who have made statements in my case.
-The health and well-being of high-ranking police officers and especially N. Enkhbayar, all have deteriorated with the prospect of imprisonment. But you have made it through the toughest prison system in Mongolia for five years. What do you think about this?
-I think when one truly believes in something, he can overcome anything. Although I have not killed anyone on purpose, I could not just die before any of this is resolved. I will live until everything is decided. You ask me about Enkhbayar; it is not an easy task to go on a hunger strike for 10 days, like he did. I thought that a man could only go on for seven days at most. It’s scary to even think about anything more than that. But I do not know how and in what condition he experienced that hunger. There is a difference between a man like me in this condition, in prison, to go on a hunger strike and a politician going on a hunger strike. For his beliefs, I respect N. Enkhbayar. There is no one out there that makes absolutely no mistakes. I think it is right to sometimes forgive people.
-There are rumours that N. Enkhbayar put you in prison. In addition to the good things you know about him, you also know all the bad things he has done.
-I will tell you just one thing on this. I don’t know if you noticed it or not, but I have many people who are very loyal to me. One of them was the leader of Dayar Mongol, but he got capital punishment. What he did actually involved three people, but he took the punishment alone. We would not make a single move against the people we worked with, even when faced with death. This is a quality that makes us men. If the other man pushes us, we are still loyal. I am one of those people. If Enkhbayar told me, “I am in a high political position. I will get rid of you, I no longer need you,” I would accept it. The only reason politicians get into trouble or even get killed is because they know too much.
Unless his liver takes his life away, Enkhbayar will definitely come back and enter politics in Mongolia.
-If you had something to say to him, what would it be?
-I’d say, bear through it and come back to politics. A man does not repeat his mistakes. If a man repeats his mistakes over and over again he will never succeed. N. Enkhbayar has made a lot of mistakes. He pushed away many of his personal friends and he also trusted many untrustworthy people. But I feel that he will not repeat his mistakes. Politics is a very dirty game. If politicians do not have gloves, they will not succeed.
-What do you mean?
-Guys like me are the gloves; I was Enkhbayar’s pair of gloves, basically. So in essence it means that I would connect to certain people that Enkhbayar normally wouldn’t.
-Let us talk about something else. I heard that you were a humble person who does nothing but write books?
-Well, I really despise the books I have written. I think those books were just commercial books.
-What do you think about your case?
-I am guilty; I will not say I am innocent. I think most young Mongolians in prisons already acknowledge that they are guilty. There are only a few people who know that they will definitely get the highest possible punishment from the state. I had never shook hands with a Chinese-Mongolian person, but I did so in prison.
I met this Chinese-Mongolian man in gyandan. He was there for the seventh time. This time he was in for killing someone with a knife. I asked him, “How many years did you expect to get for this?” He said he expected 20 but got more. I told him, “So this is where we meet. I do not like people like you, Chinese-Mongolian, but now there is no use in hating each other,” and then I shook that man’s hand.
-You have accused many people of having Chinese blood, haven’t you?
I just hope that Mongolia does not lose its independence. I don’t care whether a person is hybrid or not, as long as they work and dedicate their efforts to the good of Mongolia and its people. But I will oppose and fight if they use high political positions to fulfill the interests of foreigners.
-You always wore a Khas symbol (swastika) around your neck and you are still wearing it today. Tell us more about it.
-Well, it is like this. I wore this in the high room in gyandan and I am still wearing it. Things like this are generally forbidden in jails. It has a lot of symbolism, some of which is derived from hundreds of years ago. It is like a family trophy for me and I plan to give this to my children because I think energies are collected in items. It would take many volumes of books to explain the symbolism of a Khas symbol.
Short URL: http://ubpost.mongolnews.mn/?p=1497
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